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Post by Lord Surge on Oct 25, 2008 15:28:45 GMT -4
Congratulations Matt.
The first game is usually the hardest. Heh.
What edition(s)/systems?
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Vampire Lestat
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Post by Vampire Lestat on Oct 25, 2008 16:05:44 GMT -4
From what I've heard of fourth edition I'm not going to bother trying it. It's too over balanced where none of the classes fell different from each other. The thieves skills where all put into on skill so you can't specialize anymore. One thief could do everything theif related.
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Post by Hazmatt on Oct 26, 2008 10:46:54 GMT -4
Actually, it's a Star Wars game (Saga edition). My friend and I met the DM yesterday, and he seems like a pretty nice guy. We will be joining an existing campaign, but they're only a couple of sessions into the current storyline.
Though I would like to give D&D 4e a whirl sometime. I've heard the arguments against 4e, and I agree with some of them, but I've also heard from a lot of people who've played it and love it. Some of the whining is just because people hate change... in fact, I remember similar bitchfests when 3.5 came out, and when 3.0 came out, and I wasn't even into D&D back then. Heck, you don't even have to be into D&D; you'll hear the same "hate it at first, warm up to it later" thing every time Microsoft releases a new version of Windows.
Some people are saying 4e is too simple, other people are saying it's to complicated. My own chief complaint is pretty much what Lestat said (and keep I've not played it, just read the PHBs) - the powers system makes all the classes too similar. A fighter using a daily attack power doesn't play much different than a Wizard using a daily touch attack spell. Take out the flavor text, and you're pretty much just saying "I deal 1d6+3 damage to the orc in the square next to me." Other class differences - AC, strength, hit points, etc - are just stats, but it's the strategy that's supposed to define a class.
In 3x, playing a different class made the whole game seem like a different game. The core three - fighter, wizard, and rogue - had entirely different rules and strategies. A fighter didn't do much more than stay in front and swing his sword. A rogue took a bit more thinking, and wizards were the most strategic of all. And that was the beauty of the game! That's what made the game appealing to so many different players. If one of your guests wants to play Yahtzee, and the other wants to play Scrabble, you have to take turns. But with D&D, you get Yahtzee and Scrabble and even Hungry Hungry Hippos in a group together, working together, complementing each other's skills, and all having fun despite the fact that they didn't all want to play the same thing. No, not despite the fact... because of it.
But in 4e, instead of the checkers champions playing fighters, and the chess champions playing wizards, we all have to be chess champions. It makes playing a fighter as complicated as playing a wizard... but it makes playing a wizard as simple as playing a fighter. So I wonder if the people who say 4e is too complicated are used to playing fighters, and the people saying it's too simple are used to playing wizards.
In any event, when I do try D&D, it will probably be 4e. That's what's going to be supported for the next few years, that's what games seem to be running in my area, and that's will be played in any RPGA-hosted events I happen to attend. Since I haven't played the previous versions (at least not in PnP form), I won't be as annoyed by the changes. A lot of people are starting to warm up to it, now that they've actually played it. A friend of mine, who heads a group that organizes almost anything D&D-related in Nashville, says that it plays a lot better than it reads, and that they've had a much easier time teaching it to new players. From what I'm starting to see in threads, people who've only read the PHB claim it's too much like an MMORPG, but often they recant once they actually play it.
I'll let you know what I think once I actually get a chance to try it, but I'll probably stick with this Star Wars campaign for a while.
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Post by Vampire Lestat on Oct 26, 2008 11:04:16 GMT -4
You may be right but perfect balance in any setting has always been a turn off for me. I'm not against balance but there is a thing as too much balance. I'll stick to 3/.5 and only try fourth edition if someone gets me the books. Otherwise that money can go to better uses. Oh and Matt there are some fighter variants in 3/.5 that require thinking. Take Dragon Shaman for example.
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Post by Hazmatt on Oct 26, 2008 11:17:52 GMT -4
Oh, I know. Even the basic 3x fighter class can be turned into a strategic character with the right combination of stats/feats. Just like a wizard can be a tank if built the right way. I'm just talking about the basic core experience, though.
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Post by Vampire Lestat on Oct 26, 2008 11:40:54 GMT -4
That I can agree with. Let me know how the meeting with the DM goes.
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Post by Lord Surge on Oct 27, 2008 2:25:53 GMT -4
I've played every edition from 2-4th.
4th sucks, enough said. There are too many flaws. The game's been watered down so severely to be more 'kid-friendly' that it's not D&D anymore.
It's not just hating change either, it is just not fun. Every combat is the same boring crap. Every class is the same. Things are far too simplified. Players aren't rewarded for putting time and effort into crafting a character anymore, and the focus can't even be on role-playing anymore. Ever. The game's just not made for it.
I'm all about 3, and to a lesser extent 3.5.
It sucks that they've stopped supporting 3rd and the d20 system, but I know my friends and I will continue to play 4th.
Oh, and don't even get me started on the ridiculous shit they pulled in the Forgotten Realms setting with little or no explanation at all. Sheesh.
That being said, congrats Matt.
Make sure to abuse stunning ;-)
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Post by Vampire Lestat on Oct 27, 2008 9:42:35 GMT -4
If I where matt I'd abuse force choke. I know several people in RL I'd love to use it on. That or force lightning.
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Post by Hazmatt on Oct 27, 2008 9:43:44 GMT -4
4th sucks, enough said. There are too many flaws. The game's been watered down so severely to be more 'kid-friendly' that it's not D&D anymore. If you say so. Personally, it's not about failures in 4e, so much as things I miss about 3/3.5. If I had never heard of 3 when 4 came out, I don't think I'd have any complaints at all. If I where matt I'd abuse force choke. I know several people in RL I'd love to use it on. That or force lightning. I can't do that. This is strictly a "good" group, and if we get too many dark side points, we become NPCs.
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Post by Vampire Lestat on Oct 27, 2008 10:40:49 GMT -4
Just a fun thought though. You can't deny that you haven't thought of doing it to some people at one point in your life.
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Post by Hazmatt on Oct 27, 2008 11:25:46 GMT -4
Heh, when I mentioned I was playing Star Wars to a powergaming friend of mine, here's the first thing he said:
Somehow I don't think my group would allow such a thing.
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Post by Vampire Lestat on Oct 27, 2008 13:24:44 GMT -4
lol Be hilarious though.
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Post by Lord Surge on Oct 27, 2008 14:58:56 GMT -4
Heh, my apologies if I came off a bit irritated with 4th. I just would prefer to play 3rd or 3.5th at both of my weekly games rather then 4th at one.
Star wars has an interesting ruleset for stunning. Especially if you wield two heavy blasters. Plenty of attacks/round.
Anyway, I think my favorite Star Wars character would had to have been the drink-droid. A 'retired' gladiator droid with plenty of weapon slots, enough that a few were converted into the sort which could hold and dispense drinks.
He also had the droid berserker prestige class. Heh.
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Post by Vampire Lestat on Oct 27, 2008 15:17:54 GMT -4
Till today I never herd of a Star Wars RP. Though I do have books for Vampire the Maqurade and several other odd ones.
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Post by Hazmatt on Oct 28, 2008 20:49:13 GMT -4
Heh, my apologies if I came off a bit irritated with 4th. I just would prefer to play 3rd or 3.5th at both of my weekly games rather then 4th at one. Honestly, so would I. Being familiar with NWN, it would be less for me to learn. Plus, 4e hasn't released bards yet.
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